Most of the time, I don’t follow politics. It’s much better for the blood pressure. It also means I don’t wind up wringing my hands over things I cannot change. I vote. I pray for the elected officials. And yes, sometimes I pray for 2X4’s to come into a resounding intersection with the pates of politicians. I am a political conservative when it comes to voting. I don’t mind saying that. We have a constitution, and we should not keep on re-interpreting it for the benefit of pork-barrel spending and taxes that would make our founding fathers gasp. We should not keep operating under the mindset that the solution to the debt-crisis is more spending. If government were a business, it would have been bankrupt long ago. Most importantly, we need to defend life, especially life at the poles of human age.
And I will also say this: a nation deserves its leaders.
It is disgusting to me how the particular race of our president is being made into a political matter. Folks, the color of Obama’s skin has NOTHING to do with whether he is a good or bad president. I don’t know why anyone on either side is thinking any differently. It makes no sense to me. For me, it is about policy, not skin color. I disagree with Obama’s policies. If Walter Williams or Thomas Sowell were to run for president, I’d vote for either one of them in a heartbeat.
David Gadbois
greenbaggins
paigebritton
Reed Here
reformedmusings
rfwhite
Ron Henzel
Green Baggins 
Bob B said,
November 6, 2012 at 12:10 pm
I actively refuse to vote. Voting just encourages them. It gives implicit sanction for whatever violence the state does, and I don’t want the state doing violence on my behalf.
Bob S said,
November 6, 2012 at 5:43 pm
I don’t need to be encouraged to make all kinds of remarks about politics, never mind voting and color, but the bottom line is that modern politics resembles a religion that is all about guilt and envy. As a corollary, guilty white liberals feel religiously justified by voting for somebody on the basis of the candidate’s color.
Neither does the fact that our currency is green or that the govt. is in the red, not the black, register with those genuflecting before the golden calf of “democracy”. The opportunity to vote and break the 8th commandment by having the government steal for you is too great to pass up. “Hey, everybody’s doing it” is the modern secular egalitarian gloss of Gen. 3:12.
tcriley said,
November 7, 2012 at 3:08 am
If you don’t vote then, it seems to me, you have no reason to even comment. You have done nothing so don’t complain. At least when you vote, for someone, then you are in the game. People from all over the world would love just an opportunity to cast their vote even when they lose, see Iraq, Iran, Egypt, and various African countries. You do not even appreciate what has been provided to you by our Constitution, Founders, and the military. Get out and change the direction rather than piously telling us all how prideful and silly your are for not voting.
BJ Mora said,
November 7, 2012 at 8:57 am
Those who refuse to participate in the political process (even just as simple as voting) cannot therefore complain about the process. Yet, actually, since most of us pay taxes anyway, we’re all in the process whether we like it or not. So complain away.
I disagree with Bob B, of course. People are still responsible for what they do. I may vote a man into office and therefore have some secondary responsibility for what he may or may not do, but ultimately the man is the one who will answer before God for his transgressions.
Bob B said,
November 7, 2012 at 10:18 am
tcriley, bjmora,
It is an absurd argument to make that refusal to participate = cannot complain. Such an argument is designed to marginalize the voice of the non-voting population, and buttresses the government by encouraging participation. I’ve even heard the argument extended to ‘thou must vote for either dem or rep – or you can’t complain – cause the 3rd party won’t win’.
For the record, tcriley, you pegged me wrong. I do understand what the constitution gave us. I’ve run for office, participated, and smelled the corruption first hand. I wouldn’t include ‘the military’ in the list of benefactors… but then again I’m not a warmonger.
I also see that the constitution doesn’t matter anymore, and we would probably be better off in a monarchy than this failed republic turned democracy. I recommend you listen to some ‘Hans-Hermann Hoppe’ on youtube, and read Frederic Bastiat’s ‘The Law’. Here is a short essay by Murray Rothbard that could get you started. Careful though the rabbit hole is deep. http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard62.html
Once you have a proper understanding of government, law, and economics – then we can begin a discussion on voting.
As it is, I’ve had my Saul-Paul moment when the scales fell off my eyes. I’ll pray that you have yours too.
Bob S said,
November 7, 2012 at 12:29 pm
TC & BJ
Voting is inescapable. We all vote whether we vote or not, whether we like it or not.
I merely voted for None of the Above when it came to
Establishment Candidate A or B. (Actually I was surprised to see what was available including a write in slot on the ballot.)
But really. The whole thing is getting to resemble a farce on the national level.
For instance, ever watch the Al Smith Dinner/Roast?
If I remember correctly in both ’08 and ’12, the Repug candidates handed the Dim his rep, his policies, his whatever in shreds on a platter. They talked about Benghazi, immigration, racism – you name it – whatever forbidden taboo topic we never heard about before or after with some substance and sterling delivery. (No kidding, even McCain.) Other than that, mum and dumb was the word.
IOW if the stupid party could stop snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, I might vote for them. Until then neither the stupid nor the wicked party needs to waste my time or insult my intelligence.
To put it another way, contra romanism protestantism says that ordinarily outside of the church there is no salvation.
We are living in what more and more is resembling unordinary times
Think unordinary rights for sodomites. Yeah, I voted against it, but when the evangelicals can’t figure out the 4th commandment, can we really expect the world to figure out the 7th, never mind the erroneous civil rights/equality argument in which same sex unions are privileged over same family or more than one partner at the same time unions?
There’s moral authority and majority authority. The church has neither at the moment and the politics only reflects it.
tcriley said,
November 7, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Bob,
For being so up on politics, how is it that you make the mistake of saying,
“I do understand what the constitution gave us. I’ve run for office, participated, and smelled the corruption first hand. I wouldn’t include ‘the military’ in the list of benefactors… but then again I’m not a warmonger.
I also see that the constitution doesn’t matter anymore, and we would probably be better off in a monarchy than this failed republic turned democracy.”
The corruption is not the Constitution but the people, Duh. And as for the last comment. Enjoy life under monarch – who is the law. The Constitutional government we have is noble and good, but clearly needs to be understood and followed. This requires us to teach it to others. Sounds like you aren’t up for that solution. Your solution is to suggest something better – a Monarchy.
Bob B said,
November 7, 2012 at 3:09 pm
tcriley 7
I don’t mean to suggest a monarchy as the best form of government, but rather as preferable for a number of reasons over our current democracy. Go listen to Hans-Hermann Hoppe on youtube, author of ‘Democracy, the god that failed’. There are several good reasons as to why a monarchy is ‘better’ than a rule of the simple majority democracy.
(skip to 7:15 for beginning of lecture) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0R1cftftsY.
The Constitution is a flawed document. The articles of the confederation is a better document (also flawed, but better) for building a lasting republic of independent sovereign states. Our republic has devolved into a Democracy, as evident by our supreme leader getting barely 1/2 of the voting population’s support, and yet views that as a mandate to do what he wants.
I don’t think our current government can be reigned back into the confines of the constitution (assuming people like you and I could even agree on that – much less those with power who make money off of the bloated monstrosity). I’m not suggesting a Monarchy as the end-all solution as they have their own problems, but at this point I think we could all use a break from this ‘majority rule’ corpratocracy we have now… it doesn’t seem to be working out well for anyone outside the elite few.
David Gadbois said,
November 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Good on the Bayly brothers for calling a spade a spade. Today we ought to be “grieving the wickedness of our nation’s reelection of President Barack Obama to a second term in the White House”
Jason Loh said,
November 7, 2012 at 7:49 pm
We all know that politics is about “choosing the lesser of the two *evils*” Politics is messy – democracy or monarchy; politics is vague and uncertain; politics is corruptible (as Bob B found out) – this is the reality; politics is about competing interests (*personal* as well as social) – politics is about *differences* of opinions, etc.; and above all, politics was instituted because of sin, in sin, through sin, under sin and with sin. Thus, the right-ness of politics cannot share the same logical status as the right-ness of the Gospel. Right-ness in politics is always and only relative.
The role of the Church is to preach the Gospel and uphold the proper use of Law in its 1st *and* 2nd uses of the Law. The Sabbath was made for the human, not the human for the Sabbath. Slavery as an institution – which St Paul was not recorded as advocating its abolition – was abolished as a consequence of the Civil War. IOW, politics, ideology change according to times. The method, approach of doing politics change according to times. The Church does not exist in an contextual-less world. The Church is an estate of life (as Luther puts it, one of three estates alongside state and family/ society). In other societies, the church would be substituted by the mosque, temple, etc. As an aside, all religions are pale imitations of the true worship of God. IOW, they are not just false but all of them in one way or another point back to the original cult of Elohim/ Yahweh. Christians don’t have a superior knowledge of the Law overagainst the non-Christian. We are no different than non-Christians in respect of the Law. To insist otherwise is to be less than human. This is not to deny Christian heritage and influence but that the line between Christianised Law and secularised Law is very thin indeed.
The Christian then is distinguished from the non-Christian by the Gospel alone. This is where our righteousness is found.
Bob S said,
November 8, 2012 at 4:11 pm
9. David
I was glad to see that the BBros. also castigated the GOP for having the audacity to try to put over such a lack luster and drone of a clone candidate such as Romney on conservative voters. My take is that many Republicans would have heaved a sigh of relief and gone back to sleep if a Repug was prez and that wicked Dim was out. Meanwhile the totalitarian welfare/warfare state would continue to metastasize.
Maybe people took the advice and drank the koolaid about the lesser of two evils. Between Mr. Romneycare and Mr. Obamacare, the possibility of going to war with Iran in voting with the first might have been decisive.
IOW if enough conservatives refused to vote for Romney for that and other reasons (for instance, the way Paul’s delegates were handled at the convention in the mad rush to anoint Mitt), the handwriting was on the wall. Not only did fewer people vote in ’12 than in ’04 and ’08, fewer whites, his natural voting base, voted for Romney also – whatever the minorities did.
Of course, Geo. W. Obama could do an about face like Geo. W. Bush with his initially humble foreign policy. We might need another false flag event, an October Surprise or a Reichstag fire, but these things can be managed. That, after all is what the CIA is all about overseas. Maybe like the drones, it will come home to America.
I am not looking forward to it.
rfwhite said,
November 8, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Green Baggins: Rick Phillips offers some not-so-random post-election thoughts here: http://www.reformation21.org/articles/christian-responses-to-the-2012-election.php
Richard Zuelch said,
November 8, 2012 at 11:41 pm
It’ll probably be pretty disgusting to see what America looks like after a full eight years of Barry the Socialist. Not looking forward to it.
Brad B said,
November 9, 2012 at 12:50 am
I see I’m not the only one fed up with this federal government. The choice of Robamney was not going to happen for me–yeilded quite the uproar from family and other conservatives. I do want to see what kind of response any here at GB think of arguing for civil disobedience toward this government. I’ve been told that obeying the government is rooted in the 5th commandment, but from the Rom. 13 and 1 Pet. 2, as Jason Loh above stated the civil authority was instituted by God as His minister because of sin. Maybe there is consistent synergy in the scriptures for both the 5th commandment/Rom.13 1Pet. 2
The parameters for legitimate minister for good is the punishment of those who do evil, and rewarder of those who do good. The current US government is more wicked than the government that the founders rebelled against, contrarily rewarding evil and punishing good.
[good and evil in the sense of what the Bible would call good/evil] I’m not suggesting at this time any sort of violent rebellion, , not even suggesting civil disobedience, just want to know, what say you?
johnbugay said,
November 10, 2012 at 6:03 am
Before Christians do too much navel-gazing, they should factor in that Romney’s get-out-the-vote effort turns out to have been a huge technological failure.
Reed Here said,
November 10, 2012 at 10:33 am
John: what do you think about that? A man who took over the planning 2002 Salt Lake Olympics when they were in disarray and turned them into gold; a man who successfully turned around a number of troubled major corporations; a man who successfully ran a state controlled by the opposing party; this man has this level of organizational failure?
Reed Here said,
November 10, 2012 at 10:35 am
Aside from all our observations about what makes for good/bad civil governance, …
Bob S said,
November 11, 2012 at 6:57 pm
12 Dr. White
Thanks for the link to Phillips’s remarks on the recent election. On the whole, they were pretty good.
Yet one, he seems to close by taking Rom. 10:13-17 to apply to all church members, not just preachers. I don’t question that we ought to be ever more diligent to live lives that provoke questions about the reason for the hope we have, but I would also hope Phillips does not mean ‘every member a minister’ in the baptist sense of every member a preacher.
Two, will Phillips follow through and begin to question the great protestant holyday of Thanksgiving, if not acknowledge, at least for presbyterians, that we cannot have days of thanksgiving without also having days of fasting and prayer? Perhaps the rote auto pilot celebration of a national Day of Thanksgiving in light of the providence of recent political events makes the affair a little too presumptuous, not to mention popish, if we may say so.
At least Geo. Gillespie, no presbyterian slouch he, would at least reprobate the automatic aspect of the day, whatever the providential aspect, theocracy or 2K notwithstanding.
Thanks,
protoprotestant said,
November 11, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Obama’s policies haven’t proven to be very different than his predecessor.
The United States spends more on its military complex than the rest of the world combined. Until that spending is vastly cut, discussions regarding the deficit are a waste of time.
I did vote, but I didn’t vote for either candidate representing the establishment duopoly. Local elections matter. I definitely wanted to vote for the House of Representatives and the one Senate seat that was up for grabs in my state. But with the Presidency, I’ll vote for just about any 3rd party. Only when a 3rd party tops the 15% mark in the polls can we start having some real discussion.
Until then they are excluded from news coverage, the debates and the establishment-approved candidates can go on with their sound-byte style campaigning.
Our system is hopelessly broken. Our elections are about money, not issues. Our stupid winner-take-all electoral system makes the system un-reformable. A parliamentary system is actually much more favourable to democracy and we would do well to borrow the French model for how to conduct an election.
Rather than waste my vote by voting 3rd party, I could just as easily argue that those who vote for the establishment parties are wasting their vote. Regardless of who wins the status quo is supported….and nothing changes. There are differences between the parties but the differences are not that great. Campaign rhetoric quickly transforms into a pragmatic equilibrium. We would realize this except for the fact that past presidents such as Reagan have been mythologized. Reagan’s record is not that conservative and I doubt he would make through the Republican primaries today.
protoprotestant said,
November 11, 2012 at 9:02 pm
BTW, no surprise but I disagree with RPhillips points.
1. Christian Sacralism has helped drive many of these wedges and caused social divisions that are unnecessary. There will always be antithesis between ‘us and them’ but this is exacerbated when the ‘Christian’ position is about employing the government to ‘force’ (which is violence) people to conform to our way.
2. Though this ex-military officer may hate Socialism he lived under government health care for many years while serving in the Legions. Our tax money supports abortions in the military and has for ages. He was part of the system. Part of this country’s problem is the employer-based health care system. Your health care should never be tied to your employer and thus this issue wouldn’t even arise.
Military officers and homosexuals? Wow, wouldn’t want a homo killing someone, but if they’re straight that’s okay? The military is such a morally bankrupt organization to begin with. This kind of reasoning, attaching concepts like morality and honour to the military defy all moral sense and are divorced from social, historical, and geopolitical reality.
3. How about the Church? Or has Phillips confused America with the Church? Somehow unregenerate people are going to understand the Law of God?
4. We should have been doing this all along. But instead Bush was all too often praised and treated in messianic terms while Clinton and now Obama invoke imprecatory responses. Obama is a wicked guy…but no more than George Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, or Wilson.
5. This is the only point I believe he got right.
I realize 99% of the readers here will disagree with what I’ve said but I urge you to step back and reconsider some of these fundamental issues. The Dominionist experiment re-energized by Schaeffer, Rushdoony and the Moral Majority has reached a point of crisis. The demographic realities have been against you for some time…hence the frantic urgency to turn the tide before it slips away.
This election demonstrates that time has arrived. This election should have been a cakewalk for the Republicans. They picked a terrible candidate but despite that to have lost this….is stunning.
I am greatly concerned by the rhetoric coming from the Right. The government is being delegitimized, fear and conspiracy abound. I’m starting to hear whispers of something I have feared for a long time. This is going to lead to violence. Watch out because some unhinged member of the Christian Right will not heed the pacific advice Phillips rightly gives. Someone will take up the sword and I fear this country will before too many years have passed be once more praying for peace in the streets.